How does the diction reveal the meaning in Ellen Kay's "Pathedy of Manners"? To intelligently respond to this prompt (and why would you want to respond any other way?), you need to work the poem thoroughly first and ascertain what that "meaning" actually is.
Also, be sure to read chapter three on denotation and connotation. Two of the poems, "Naming of Parts" and "The world is too much with us", are ones we will be returning to at some point this quarter.
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It seems like the entire poem portrays a woman's digression.
Well, the first and fourth lines of each stanza rhyme. Not only that, but they offer a positively connoted expression in the first line, and pretty negative one in the fourth line.
FIRST LINES
At twenty she was brilliant and adored
She learned the cultured jargon of those bred
She hung up her diploma, went abroad,
Back home her breeding led her to espouse
I saw her yesterday at forty-three,
A hundred people call, though not one friend,
FOURTH LINES:
Of men whose interest was their sole reward.
And when she might have thought, conversed instead.
And learned to tell real Wedgwood from a fraud.
But lonely children in an ideal house.
Illusions of lost opportunity.
Tenets of every mind except her own.
Alone in brilliant circles to the end.
I really like the expressions "Choosing to infer/ Tenets of every mind except her own." because I think it represents the dependency people of such lavish style and materialism have on the opinions of other people. The subject, the woman, instead of choosing her own road in life chose the road of the 'cool' the 'rich' the "ideal". And the way Kay gives "ideal" such a derogatory connotation is cynical, and truthful. "Ideal" ain't so "ideal" if one doesn't have the right motives?
"Alone in brilliant circles to the end" I think shows her looking for purpose in a pretentious existence. It's sort of how her mind goes in circles looking for "other tenants" to give it purpose. She doesn't value her own mind, but only what the minds of others value.
Wow that's really cool the way you broke down the structure of the poem, Erik.
I don't know if I'm looking in the wrong dictionaries, but I can't find the definition of 'pathedy'. Help?
My favorite line with incredible word choice is line 6: "To antique crystal and authentic pearls,"
When I think of people who attend debutante balls and join country clubs, these are the exact words that come to mind. But when Kay describes a life of riches like this, it seems lonely. The girl in the poem learns the jargon of people with pearls and crystals for a family...not a loving support structure.
Another example of good diction is "Toying with plots to kill time and re-wed" (line 19). In the previous line Kay describes this woman as completely alone, and all she does is 'toy with plots'. I loved the choice to use the noun plots instead of the more common 'plans'. I can't put my finger on what changed because Kay used 'toy with plots' instead of 'make plans', but it makes it seem like the girl in the poem doesn't care that she's alone. She's not desperately seeking interaction, but amuses herself with her plots.
This poem reminded me of the Great Gatsby in a way. It makes riches seem so lonely.
The only thing the word, "Pathedy", reminds me of is like a path or road. Could "Pathedy" concern the creation of paths on which human existence travels?
I'm probably just speaking nonsense, but it reminds me of our lovely suburban existence which gives us paved roads not just to school, recreation, and destinations but suburbia also gives us paved roads to life's destination's: high school, college, to jobs, retirements, and to ignorance, in some cases, of the unpaved world.
SO, it brings to mind once again the final line: "alone in brilliant circles to the end".
In my experiences, this suburban existence can be a continual paved circular road considered "brilliant" by the multitude enjoying it.
In conclusion.......
I think the title could refer to the circular paved road "manners" take this woman down.
If you read the study questions in Sound and Sense (at least in the twelfth edition), the first one talks about the "pathedy". The suffix -edy refers to the genre of theater known as a comedy of manners, while the Greek root path- means feeling or suffering. A comedy of manners mocks the upper classes, like Great Expectations, so I believe the "pathedy" in this poem is that it mocks the upper class life style by showing the suffering of one women raised in a wealthy family.
The diction in this poem is very sophisticated. For me, it gives the impression that the narrator is telling her own story. This poem was written in the 1930s, a time when class separation was still rampant. A woman with such a broad vocabulary would have to have had formal schooling of some kind. The last phrase, "she will walk alone in brilliant circles to the end", acknowledges that although she is surrounded by intelligent and capable people, this tragic woman will never feel content. It also leaves little hope for the future by saying she will walk alone "to the end", implying that future affluent women will share her fate.
Erik: Way to be creative with your analysis!
Natalie: I agree, line 6 echoes the emotionless and somber tone of the poem.
James: Good analysis on the title of the poem. I didn't quite understand what the title meant. Knowing the title definitely helps reveal the central message of the poem.
I had to read the poem several times to understand the meaning. This poem somehow reminded me of the first quote in the beginning of the year about living life without purpose and introspection. It seemed like the woman in the poem was caught up with her materialism and shallowness. This woman also seemed to be merely going through the motions and had a life without much purpose or meaning. I think the central message in the poem is that a life without purpose is not fulfilling. The diction that portrays this message are "illusions", "parry", "nimble talk", and "lost opportunity" because they are all related with meaning and purpose, and also add to the theme. They also evoke negative.
Erik: I loved the way you broke down the poem. I never would have noticed the way Kay sets up her stanzas, so I'm glad you shared that.
The diction Ellen Kay uses in her poem truly allows this young woman's life to take the path that it did. Kay is able to narrate this young girl's life, and through her diction, follows the changes her life sees.
In the beginning, this young girl is portrayed as perfect and lovely- someone every young woman would be envious of. Kay chooses words like "brilliant," "adored," and "reward," which provide a positive connotation and mood. I especially love the third line, "Captured symbolic logic and the glance/ Of men whose interest was their sole reward." The one thing that stood out to me in this particular line was the phrase "captured symbolic logic." Instead of outright saying that this girl was intelligent, Kay is able to form the words so that they flow well with the succeeding phrase.
Erik also pointed out that when Kay uses the word "ideal" she tags it with a negative connotation. The definition of "ideal" is something that is standard or normal. It also can mean something that is only imagined; something that can only be a possibility, not reality. The poem could have meant that the young girl's marriage, children, and house were only something "normal" people dream of; that it was something so splendid. However, Kay attaches the negative tail to it; meaning that it carries a sense of normality and mundanity to it.
The second half of the poem takes on a more depressing tone. Kay uses words like "lonely," "dead," "plots," "kill," "lost," and "conviction." I definitely felt the shift in this woman's life, as soon as Kay introduced such words into the poem. I agree with Natalie about the phrase "Toying with plots to kill time." It's a powerful line, almost creepy, yet as a reader I also get a sense of apathy in the subject. Also, the word "kill" has such a close proximity to the word "dead" that it creates a strange feel in the poem.
I love the line in the second to last stanza, where Kay says, "She shuns conviction, choosing to infer/ Tenets of every mind except her own." It shows that the woman does not really have an opinion of her own, but, as Erik pointed out, that she feeds off the opinions and views of those around her. I love how Kay uses the phrase "shuns conviction," as if the woman is avoiding her guilty conscience.
Erik, I'm really astounded by the way you picked up on the patterns in the poem. I didn't even notice that until I went back and reread the poem.
Kay uses diction in this poem to do something that I didn't really know was possible. In the line" She learned the cultured jargon of those bred to antique crystal and authentic pearl", the words cultured and authentic are usually used in a positive way, but here, there is a negative connotation to them. This shows Kay's brilliance.
To me, the poem in a way illustrates a woman's "journey" through life. In the beginning, the poem is mostly about how she spent her time learning about the cultural aspects of life. She "learned the cultured jargon"... "Scorned Wagner"... and "learned to tell real wedgewood from a fraud". All may be something that a cultured person might do, but they're really insignificant. It kind of reminds me of Pip and how he had the shell of gentleman.
Anywhoo, I thought that the most interesting thing about this poem was how the author uses the diction in the poem to kind of make assumptions about the woman. In the last stanza, "A hundred people call, though not one friend," to me sounds like she spent her whole life working to create such a "good" outside image, that she never really made any true friends. After her children left, and her husband died, she doesnt really have anything else.
oh, i also noticed that Kay uses "espouse" in the way that we talked about in class with the multiple denotations.
It sounds like "a spouse" so "Back home her breeding led her to espouse" as in led her to meet her husband.
and also espouse means to marry. so "Back home her breeding led her to espouse" as in she just got married.
Like Natalie, this poem reminds me of The Great Gatsby and how wealth does not ensure happiness, in fact, it often times leads to sorrow. And also a side note to Natalie about "Toying with plots to kill time and re-wed..." Maybe it's also referring to "pots," like she cooked to kill time. Just an idea...
In the beginning of her poem, Kay uses words such as "brilliant," and "adored." Words that make the woman's life feel happy, and that her wealth promises opportunity. However, when she later uses words like "toying," it expresses a view that her life is mundane and simply "ideal," and lonely. When somebody "toys" with something, it's usually because they are bored and looking for something to do, or because they are unsatisfied with what they have. When you don't want to eat your vegetables on your plate, you "toy" with them. I think her life had become so lonely and mundane that she simply began to "toy" with it for lack of anything better to do.
In the last set of lines, the author again uses "brilliant," to contrast the "brilliant" in the beginning set of lines. Before, it was a word to describe a promising and bright future. However, in the end, the connotation is flipped and it is used in the context of loneliness, sadness, and missed opportunity.
"Scorned" Wagner..... means like anti-opera, or looking down upon meaningful, nationalistic German music?
"praised" images of Degas' painting of dancing girls..... Um, I'm not sure.... Pro-French Impressionist paintings?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Edgar_Germain_Hilaire_Degas_021.jpg
Help me out?
This is a fitting poem to follow our class discussions on denotations and connotations. Throughout the poem, the author uses words with positive denotations while conveying an entirely different connotation. I think the best example of this was the fourth stanza, "A bright young man whos pearl cufflinks were real.|They had an ideal marriage, and ideal| But lonely children in an ideal house."
On the surface of each line, it seems that she has a perfect family. Words like "Bright" and "ideal" are almost always considered good things. However, When examined as a whole, she seems to have an empty life. SHe is surrounded by wealth, and yet her husband can only be described as "bright", not loving or fun, and her children are lonely.
There is this feeling of uneasiness in all of the stanzas, as others before me have analyzed. The author does an excellent job of using positive words to create the sad, lonely, empty woman in the poem.
I would say "Erik, I really liked your analysis of the 1st and 4th lines" but every single person before me has already stated that...so I won't.
So. I also thought of The Great Gatsby. The person is describing some person she knew who thought money could buy happiness. All this high-class, upper society thing could bring happiness, but in the end, it doesn't. She has "hundred people call, though not one friend." It's like you feel alone in a room full of people.
(Sharon, just for you, it's like Gossip Girl! It's like Jenny who wants to be in the "in-crowd" and will go to extreme extents to become accepted and have a slight grasp of the upper class wealth) and sorry! I had too!
But diction. I really liked in the 2nd stanza, "she learned the cultured jargon of those bred" especially cultured jargon. I think she specifically chose jargon for a reason. Jargon sounds really sophisticated; jargon is special and unique to a specific group of people and that's what it is. She learned the jargon, the language, the words, that were used in the upper class as opposed to the lower classes. And how Kay uses cultured with it. I'm not sure why, but it has this effect on the stanza.
And I especially liked in the 4th stanza, the repetition of "ideal." Ideal means that it has the POSSIBILITY to be good. But it doesn't necessarily mean it will be good. For example, a girl can say my IDEAL boyfriend would be...blah blah blah...but it doesn't necessarily mean she'll find him. The "ideal" marriage, children, and home suggest the possiblity and idea of happiness; it isn't definite. And ideal has such a better affect than "good" or "happy" or "hopeful." Ideal is good diction.
Interesting interpretation of the word "pathedy." Path + Methodology= Pathedy? I know it would be more like “pathology” but those are the two words I thought of. Do "-dy" or "-edy" mean anything?
Methodology:
-the branch of philosophy that analyzes the principles and procedures of inquiry in a particular discipline
- the system of methods followed in a particular discipline
Path:
-Way: a course of conduct
-A line or route along which something travels or moves
Manner:
- How something is done or how it happens
- Mode of action; way of performing or effecting anything; method; style; form; fashion
- A way of acting or behaving
- How object moves along path
- A persons outward bearing or way of behaving towards others
The definitions for these three words all correspond with each other in certain ways and also relate to the poem. I get a sense of extreme falseness and unhappiness reading this. The poem describes a woman's choices and where they lead her. Her choices are made in an effort to become a certain type of person. She chooses to follow a system of methods but still remains a woman who is constantly pining for approval and contentment. She is trying to fill the emptiness inside of her with all the wrong things, and walks "alone in brilliant circles to the end."
I noticed a few other words with multiple denotations...
Espouse:
- marry: take in marriage
- take up the cause, ideology, practice, method, of someone and use it as one's own
Breeding:
- elegance by virtue of fineness of manner and expression
- education: the result of good upbringing
- the sexual activity of conceiving and bearing offspring
- the production of animals or plants by inbreeding or hybridization
They all could fit and change the meaning of line 13. There are also many words and phrases that highlight the superficiality in her life and imply that this is what led to her downfall.
"Cultured jargon of those bred to antique crystal and authentic pearls"
"A bright young man whose pearl cufflinks were real"
"An ideal marriage, ideal but lonely children in an ideal house"
"A hundred people call, though not one friend"
“Her meanings lost in manners"
..Sorry I used so many quotation marks.
What struck me most about this poem was how Kay used many ordinarily pleasant and positive words to explain things unfortunate or unhappy in the woman’s life. At the beginning of the poem the young woman seems to be in her prime, so to speak and life is just going her way. However, as the poem progresses and her life unfold it seems as though she stumbles on superficial ideals (as the poem used this word many times) and over all makes some poor choices. She becomes consumed in worldly ideals, as I believe the poem begins to tell of her decline after the girl is said to have left to study abroad. “She hung up her diploma, went abroad / saw catalogues of domes and tapestry, / rejected an impoverished marquis…” I wasn’t entirely sure what a marquis was but it “is a nobleman of hereditary rank in various European monarchies and some of their colonies”.
As a mentioned before, the poem really spoke to me most through the words those everyday meaning is agreeable, at least. The first I observed was “ideal”. When I think of the word ideal I think, as good old Wikipedia puts it best: “Idealism also refers to a tradition in Western thought which represents things in an ideal form, or as they ought to be rather than as they really are, in the fields of ethics, morality, aesthetics, and value.” But, because I knew in the beginning that I was reading the poem while keeping my eye out for diction I was able to pick up on it. The way Kay uses the word ideal when talking about her marriage, children and home makes idealism seem like a selfish and doubtful wish. This is not dissimilar to the way Kay uses the words brilliant in the last line. Brilliance is such a tricky thing because those who possess it always seem full of their existence by at least one person. So, when Kay says the woman is “alone in brilliant circles to the end” she is not viewing her intelligence and experience as a positive but instead as a weight that holds her down and makes her attempt at being extraordinary seem rather narcissistic.
I really like that painting.
And I have no idea what you are talking about Michelle, because I have never watched Gossip girl. Ever.
Lauren-
That is so true.. the poem starts off sounding whimsical and happy, as if she is accomplishing many things in her life. Then you turn the page and from lines 13 on, her life seems to be spiraling downward.
“Idealism also refers to a tradition in Western thought which represents things in an ideal form, or as they ought to be rather than as they really are"
OUGHT TO BE. I don't like that.
I don't like 'ought to be' either, Sharon. What rubbish
It seems like the last two lines of every stanza are negative.
I really like the line "Toying with plots to kill time and re-wed/Illusions of lost opportunity." I agree with Natalie about "toying with plots" and the diction choice creating the feeling that the lass is rather careless. Like a child, she's enveloped in "toying with plots" and trying to pass the time and she doesn't realize.
I haven't read "Great Gatsby," but the lonely feeling I get by reading this poem reminds me of "Great Expectations." At least that's how I felt when reading it.
I also really enjoyed the passage "She shuns conviction, choosing to infer/Tenets of every mind except her own." It's such a depressing line. Some people of great wealth grow to depend on all things but themselves, becoming insecure and don't know how to escape it. Or don't want to because they know no different.
Although many look down upon people such as the woman described in this poem, I feel pity.
The last passage is really great. I agree with James that the last line implies that other women will share her weaknesses. It also shows that she's lost, walking "in brilliant circles to the end."
"Her meanings lost in manners" seems to say that she's too focused on appearance and tangible things that she cannot find her true self.
This poem is extremely depressing. It's beautiful.
I have nothing more to say than that the diction is brilliant. I think the plays on words in this poem are witty in both simple and complex ways. It seems to me that this is a poem that I can finally make sense of, not that I disagreed with other people's interpretation of the previous ones but more that this is one in which although I don't connect to the subject I can still connect to the way it is written somehow.
My opinion of the feeling of loneliness is more or less the same as everyone else with one caveat. It seems like rather than the rich being lonely it is those who exclude others who are lonely. To me this woman in a way excludes her true self from any role in her life, either that or she becomes so corrupt the "brilliant and adored" person no longer exists. Thanks James for the meaning of Pathedy.
Erik as usual you are very astute in your observations, one word that was fairly simple but effective is "learned the culture jargon of those bred...". In this case the word I liked very much was learned, even more than jargon, learned implies that it was not a natural part of her which leads me to Erik's conclusion of a woman's digression, but rather than digression I would choose to say corruption, rotting, or maybe even fusting.
I agree with just about everyone's comments. They had a lot of insights that I liked. There were a few phrases or words that really stood out to me. The first was "symbolic logic." Logic in itself means reason, sense, or judgement. Symbolic logic is a phrase I haven't heard before, and though it rolls nicely off the tongue they are two words that don't commonly fit together. The connotation and denotation of logic are so similiar and have only one meaning, but symbolic logic has a meaning so different. It was the first hint of the meaning of the poem to me because it does not represent something real, but rather hints at how incredibly superficial this woman's world is. The phrase made me stop, think, and read it over, which is what the author wants us to do with this woman's lifestyle.
The other word choice that really impacted me was ideal, and the frequent use of it in the fourth paragraph of the poem. This diction is different from the other example because it does fit into the poem, so well that I almost didn't notice the meaning behind it. What is interesting is that the word ideal means perfect, best, ultimate, but in this poem it has a mocking tone behind it. The use of it mostly suggests again the artificial meaning in the world, but also it says something about the value of marriage, family, and a home. Of course these things are very important, but part of the meaning of the poem to me is that these things aren't everything. This woman is not fulfilled in what she has because she doesn't understand who she is in herself. She didn't take the oppurtunity she had when she was young to develop herself, and that is why, at the conclusion of the poem when her family is gone, she is lost and lonely. The poem does not take away the value that is placed on family or money or anything else, but it places more value on the individual.
This poem shows despite her wealth and popularity, she has gained nothing. In the last paragraph, "A hundred people call, though not one friend, to parry a hundred doubts with nimble tall," implies that her status was the only thing she valued and not her friendships.
The diction in this poem helps to further portray her gains and losses throughout her life. Words like "ideal", "brilliant", "reward”, and "authentic" help convey her "successes" in society. It also shows her losses with words like, "doubts", "conviction", "afraid," and "illusions".
The part in the poem that stood out to me most was, "she hung up her diploma, went abroad, saw catalogues of domes and tapestry, rejected an impoverished marquis, and learned to tell a real Wedgewood from a fraud." This young woman seemed to want to see the world from a different perspective, perhaps she was searching for a place where the “ideal” world does not exist?
Sorry for the somewhat late response, I was talking to my cousin who just came home from Russia. Ms. Minor, while living in Yekateriberg he got a 1st edition copy of Crime and Punishment in Russian, he is pretty protective of it, but I may be able to let him lend it to me.
Well, I like this poem for the simple fact that so many of us can either relate to the story, or we know someone who can.
The fourth stanza is my favorite by far. Personally, I quite often dream of the day when I have the perfect job, family, house, car, and other nonsense. The first three lines of the stanza are so positive and uplifting. Then, the final line hits you. "But lonely children in an ideal house"(16). This is where the tone of the entire poem shifts.
The poem shifts from the early life of the woman being watched, to her later years. It was like this was written by a friend who hadn't seen this woman in decades. The once young woman is now observed trying to "kill time". I know this is a very commonly used phrase, but as we were studying, think of the connotation! Lonely children, a dead husband, and no true friends. What a miserable life. There is no better way to describe passing the time than to "kill time"(19).
The creative word choice plays with sarcasm and wit, as Harish and others have mentioned. It may just be me, but any writer who uses a great deal of sarcasm has my full attention.
"Authentic" and "cultured" are both adjective that are generally used a complimentary and positive. However, Kay uses them in a way that makes us loathe the "authentic" and "cultured" things. In relation to this poem, all of the words with a generally accepted postive connotation have a witty negative connotation. This was the most enjoyable part of it for me.
Also, just a question to anyone who feels like answering, do you have any formed opinions as to the gender of the person speaking in the poem? He/she sure is a critical and judgmental person. But hey, that is where the sarcasm is all coming from!
This poem presents the idea that the “ideal” life of wealth, family, and prestige does not determine the meaning of life. If a person has lost his/her own belief and lives a life solely under the influence of other’s view then he/she has wasted life. The woman Ellen describes would have changed her tragic life is she was brave enough to follow her “doubts”.
I noticed that the words “cultured” and “authentic”, originally sends out a positive image, is used negatively in this poem. By paring “Cultured” with “jargon”, the woman in this poem gives me a dumb blond kind of feeling, someone who cares only about appearances and not inner quality.
Regarding "Ought to be", and somewhat(verily) off topic, to Sharon and Megan - Everything is how it "ought to be" because its all a part of nature, if you catch my drift. Our purpose is to evolve. For instance: our so-called "evil" and "mistakes" and "untruth" are all created by the minds of humanity, so they are all natural just as our minds are natural. We suffer our "mistakes" so as to grow, evolve and become smarter. In this regard our self-destruction may also be natural... nukes, disease, etc. Let's hope we can naturally overcome those challenges.
I have no outlets for this stuff so you all must suffer, ahaha. It's what makes Lit evolutionary!
I think everyone did a great job dissecting, picking out diction, connotations and imagery and all that great stuff. I have to agree that her diction is what made this poem so great and striking. She used words that I never would have thought of using, in places and stanzas that I never would have thought of putting. I liked the insights that a lot of you had, it made me go "whoa" and "ohhh" and it helped me understand it better after reading what you guys have said then reading the poem again, so thanks.
Anyways, the character in this poem reminds me of adults with unrealized dreams. When I look at her life story I begin to pity her and at the same time I feel that it's almost "pathetic". It reminds me of the Dreams by Langston Hughes that Nima put up a couple blogs ago. Her life is basically a "barren field, frozen with snow". And I think that the sad part is that the woman in the story, like what Natalie mentioned, doesn't really care that she's alone "[shunning] convictions, choosing to infer tenets of every mind except her own". I think that's when a person can totally lose all purpose and the fingerprint (figuratively speaking) that one has in this world. And again, I pity her but at the same time I see it as something really pathetic.
This poem really embodies the meaning and lowly purpose of a socialite (not that I wouldn't mind to stoop down that low for a shot at the luxe).
The stanzas depicting her ( the socialite) life as a young woman with good breeding and inheritance to keep her glowing and rich. Thats what I found from looking at the word choice (okay I'll use a better word, diction. There I said it). In line 17 I noticed words that typically depict old dusty attics. I like the word illusions. She never had lost opportunity because she never was groomed to do anything besides looking nice and...um...thats about it, I mean, what else could you expect a woman like that to do? "Tenets of every mind but her own." Using tenets is better than drawing on how she is the thought in everyone else's mind except her own.
Nimble talk, just as pointless as sewing (nimble usage).
In Pathedy of Manners this girl is described as a person who goes throughout life being successful and well liked who seems to have everything that an aspiring woman dreams of....until she realizes that her perfect life does have faults. In my opinion, this poem's mood turns from being chalk full of achievement to quite sad in line 16. "But lonely children in an ideal house" This seems like the point in her life where she is starting to realize that her life is not what it once had been. The changes that she has gone through, her kids not happy, her husband dying, then her kids leaving, seems to leave her regretting. One of my favorite quotes is "hindsight is twenty twenty!" This woman is looking back on her life wishing for changes to what has occurred and towards what might occur. Yet she will be just wandering around in that hindsight not able to do anything about it, walking in "brilliant circles to the end."
What I inferred from this poem was a discussion on real and unreal pursuits. From Kay's perspective, culture and affluence lead the lady through a hypothetical world with no connection to reality. This leaves the lady empty on many levels: without concrete interests, and with no history of learning anything practical. I read this as sort of an absolute point that the life of sophistication isn't really a life at all. Although it was a profound point, it felt a little narrow. The poem is taken from the viewpoint of someone observing the life of the woman. In this, just not knowing the woman completely hacks at the integrity of the observer's characterization of genteel society.
Wow, everyone has brought up really good points! I agree with what people have said so far. Instead of repeating it, I'm going to try and say something different.
I think this poem is not just about an intelligent girl lost in materialism and worried about how society will judge her. It's also about living up to your potential. The girl was "brilliant," "captured symbolic logic," and could have learned a lot from what "wealth and mind had offered her." However, she wasted her potential and focused only on wealth, instead of knowledge and didn't make use of her intelligence.
The diction in this poem is really important, and I think line 5 and 6 show not only Kay's use of good diction, but also juxtaposition of words with different connotations. One word I thought was really important was "breeding." Kay uses this twice in lines 5 and 13 but it adds to the meaning of the poem. It feels as though Kay is trying to convey that the girl was brainwashed and "bred" into a meaningless, elitist, money-filled society. She didn't "choose" to use "cultured jargon" but "learned" it. Again, in line 13, Kay uses the passive voice and says that "her breeding led" her to marry a rich man, as though she didn't have a choice, but was forced into it by her surroundings. The multiple connotations of breeding as elegance and also mundane reproduction enhanced the poem.
The girl actually reminds me of Estella from Great Expectations, who was also intelligent and "bred" into the upper class materialism. (I know this isn't a very good connection since Estella tried to break away from her breeding, but please bear with me here. It's the closest I could come up with, considering they're both intelligent) The girl in this poem is afraid of her own intelligence, and runs to other people for help to tell her what to do. Everything that makes her unique and would help her be something in life is "lost in manners" (27).
Erik, I liked the contrast between Wagner and Degas too. I think Kay was pointing out that this girl, although intelligent and capable of appreciating Wagner, rejected his art in favor of Degas' paintings that were more favorable to her role and expected behavior in society. I hope that made sense...
Juxtaposition and diction both are really important in this poem, and I think the word "breeding" is key to understanding it. I might just be reading too much into this though. I was trying to come up with a different perspective.
Jonathan P - I think that the person speaking in the poem is female because if it were a male, he wouldn't be as critical. From the beginning, the tone of the poem is sarcastic and degrading towards the woman, and people tend to find faults easier (also find them more annoying) when the person is someone of their own gender(I think?).
The word "breeding" and "led" in the sentence "Back home... pearl cufflinks were real" made me think that the woman was involved with sexual activity before getting married and only got married because she got pregnant. Breeding sounds more scientific and the word "led" makes it seems almost as if the marriage was not fully wanted. Marriage was just the next step to fix getting pregnant.
This fact adds to how the woman's life is fake. That money isn't the key to being happy.
So I just wanted to say (like everyone else) that Erik's analysis is really interesting. I feel that the sharp contrast between the first lines with the 4th lines is something that gives an idea of the poem. It seems as though each stanza is like a small story, with all of the little stories blending together to form an overall idea. But back to the diction of the poem...
Phrases in the poem such as "tenets of every mind except her own" give a sense of not only the narrator, but also of the observer and their mindset. Also, I felt that the repetition of the word "ideal" was significant because it hammers home the idea that wealth is not something that always results in happiness (like Great Expectations!). Other phrases such as "cultured jargon" appealed to me because of the placement of such phrases in the context of the story the poem is telling. I also thought that the overall structure of the poem was interesting, as it traces a person's life from happiness to despair and finally to a state of reflection.
Nothing ends happy for you, does it Ms. Minor? I don't mean that we should be looking at the sweet and wonderful things in life, but a comedy over a tragedy would be nice.
Anyway, the poem highlights the flaws in the argument of an 'ideal' life. Ellen Kay shows the flaws in the 'ideal' life by her diction, words that have an air of 'high society' also have a feel of emptiness. The diction has a power to it, true, but it has this materialistic sense to it too that makes the unnamed woman in the poem seem rich physically and socially but poor when it comes to her own mind. But what is the meaning? The meaning, I guess, is the concept of throwing away the power of thought for something else. Sarificing her thought for manners, at the end of the poem, seemed to lose her power to think great thoughts and the meaning of her words.
I suppose that's where the title comes into play, where it is the 'feeling/suffering' of Manners, the cost of what it is on a person.
It seems to me that in line 4 the word interest could have dual denotative meanings. It blatantly refers to the physical attractiveness that the woman possesses but could monetary denotation? It reminds me of trust fund babies leeching off of interest. Upon introduction to "those bred/ to antique crystal and authentic pearls" she changes. The change more clearly presents itself in line 8 when "she might have thought, conversed instead". In the first paragraph she was an intellectual, but proceeded to devolve into a valley-girl disciple.
Pearls are symbolic in their nature, representing perfection and beauty that come out of simple and worthlessness. They are physical representations, in their round beauty, of the woman's "brilliant circles" in line 28.
http://fada.deviantart.com/art/pearls-27481934
Erik, that is exactly our (at least my) point. In the quote Sharon posted, 'ought to be' meant that things are supposed to be one way and not another... the ideal way. I agree with you that all things that ARE, ought to be because they have happened. (That was confusing). Not all things, however, happen naturally, but they are the way they are... the way they 'ought to be,' perhaps if you believe in fate.
Simply, I don't agree with that sentence which states that there is an 'ideal' way of things... :)
The poem's notability lies in its nuances of diction. The protagonist is “brilliant,” (1) both highly intelligent and striking in appearance. “Of men whose interest was their sole reward,” (4) where interest is both the paying of attention and rich due to interest in the banking sense. On an adventure, the protagonist “rejected an impoverished marquis” (11). Marquis is pronounced almost exactly like marquee, a noble title and banner respectively. Despite the protagonist's links to art (“Wagner”(7) “Degas” (7) “Wedgwood”(12)), the noble title spelling of the word is used. The protagonist's “espouse” (13) is both a marriage and an attempt to follow the ideals of the rich and cultured. And finally, the “circles” (28) are both cliques and literal circles.
The real kicker is what the title of the poem is alluding to, “Comedy of Manners.” As a quick glance on Wikipedia mentions, “Comedy of Manners” is a satire of social classes. And indeed, “Pathedy of Manners” has many references to social class when the diction is further analyzed. And since the protagonist meets an unfortunate end, “Pathedy of Manners” is likely a satire of the upper class.
A lot of you have already commented on Kays repetition of "ideal." The use of "real" and "ideal" reminded me of how Shakespeare used the word "seems" in Hamlet."
Kay uses these 2 words as a contrast between reality and superficiality and uses the contrast to mock how people caught up in the ideals of a certain image are not living a "real" life. In the 4th paragraph, the only thing that was real about the woman's husband was his pearl cufflinks. So while it is all ideal, none of it is real. The rhyming of the 2 words helps establish a relationship or rather a contrast between the 2 words.
I don’t really know what else to add. All of your analyses are great!
Kay does use many words that we would normally think to be positive--or simply neutral. With these words she creates a vivid, extremely lonely character that apparently has a lot of regret.
In lines 15-16, Kay uses the word “ideal” three times. Normally, this word is far from a bad one. Most times it is associated with good things, or considered a perfect example or something or somebody. But here, it suggests something that just had to be, or something that was simply expected of a person like her. There is no sense of happiness with the word, especially when accompanied by “lonely,” which is used to describe her children. The same goes with the word “breeding.” That word is often times used to describe animals. Of course it can be used to describe humans, but there really isn’t a whole lot of love behind the word
This was a smart woman who had everything going for her, but in the end, she chose to “converse instead” with the high-class, and in that, lost all aspects of herself--a person of deep “thought.”
“…and re-wed Illusions of lost opportunity.” It’s probably one of the most important lines in the whole poem, but I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around it. I am thinking though that “plots to kill time” is just referring to her deep desires to want to block out the earlier times in her life.
I think it’s interesting how the narrator is NOT the woman, but another person; perhaps it the voice of a friend, or even the poet’s voice… I think this is one of the reasons it is so appealing. We are observing and seeing her story as it happened over many years, as opposed to listening to a personal story coming from the character’s own point of view. Like Niloy said, we are watching an essentially happy life evolve into one of despair, which ultimately grows into one of great reflection and thought.
Eric: everyone considered Degas an impressionist because his work displayed many similar qualities, but he never classified himself as such. He always coined himself as being a "realist." He didn’t like painting outside (en plein air), a defining characteristic amongst impressionists :) :)
Like everyone else, I agree that the author's diction was amazing. It is pretty interesting to see how Kay is able to take really positive words like ideal and cultured and give them a very negative conotation.
Like Jonathan, I also wondered a lot about the speaker of this poem. The speaker is obviously an acquaintance of the woman ("I saw her yesterday at forty-three"). I believe the speaker is a women herself because she focuses a lot on the women's appearance and want of a higher social status. A man usually would not observe these details.I also think that the speaker is trying to compare her life to that of this women. Maybe by showing the uselessness of this women's life, the speaker is able to find purpose in her own.
My favorite line in this poem was "And when she might have thought, conversed instead". This is the perfect description of the typical ditzy girl that just speaks to hear her own voice. There is no real substance or thought in anything that she is saying.
great poem. I really think we need to give Erik a medal.
Neel took the words right out of my mouth on this one:
"What I inferred from this poem was a discussion on real and unreal pursuits. From Kay's perspective, culture and affluence lead the lady through a hypothetical world with no connection to reality. This leaves the lady empty on many levels: without concrete interests, and with no history of learning anything practical. I read this as sort of an absolute point that the life of sophistication isn't really a life at all"
but I would like to add a few things that address Mrs. Minor's Question about diction. I think as Neel and I have seen, this poem wants to create a sense of hollowness. Words like gone, lost, and shuns create deal of separation. I feel as though in the first half of the poem, I'm being pulled into this character then sorely disappointed by the absence of juice within.
I also need to differ slightly with Minor and those of you who have fallen in love with this poem's diction. I think what is more masterful is the syntax, word order, and constructions that Kay uses.
"Illusions of lost opportunity" is a fantastic line i think. It is also central to this poem's meaning. Like Neel noted, a life of sophistication has its flaws and more importantly, what we consider as opportunities may not really be opportunities at all. They may be mistakes that take us away from individual, introspective discovery.
i also think that change in time that occurs is terrific and I feel as though this poem could have been equally powerful in some regards if all we had was the last three stanzas.
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