Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Prompt to respond to before Wed., Nov. 20
In Act I, Scene 2, Lines 76-86, Shakespeare introduces a primary motif in Hamlet, the idea of "seeming". Consider how many of the characters -- Hamlet, Gertrude, Claudius, Polonius, Rosencrantz & Guildenstern -- are all engaged in pretense, acting out parts. Confine your discussion to Acts I & II, especially Act II. When possible refer to specific lines so others can follow your train of thought.
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It seems like none of the characters really know each other so they can't make judgments about each other with confidence. They base their actions and feelings toward the people around them on quick judgments (how the other characters "seem"). For example, Hamlet doesn't know how to react because he can't decide if he trusts the ghost or not. So he acts on his initial thoughts while still processing his opinion about the ghost.
The characters don't really know themselves either. They act like they do (giving advice to others, telling others what to do) but they are too inconsistent or uncertain in their behavior and speech. They don't always practice what they preach. (Polonius says "To thine own self be true... and thou canst not then be false to any man" -A1 S3 L 55) (After being lectured, Ophelia tells Laertes "Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, Show me the steep and thorny way to heaven, Whiles, (like) a puffed and reckless libertine, Himself the primrose path of dalliance treads And recks not his own rede." A1 S3 L51)
Polonius seems more decisive and confident because he says that the prince seems untrustworthy and he doesn't want Ophelia to be with him. He doesn't keep an open mind about their relationship and when he decides that he doesn't like the prince, he sticks with that feeling no matter what Ophelia says. He doesn't look at both sides of the story, listen to her, or seek out the good in the prince. Laertes doesn't trust him with Ophelia, either. They seem to have a habit of making decisions about people and then closing themselves off to all other opinions and possibilities, even if they are aware of their own uncertainty.. Because they are all acting out parts, one person's bad decision causes a chain reaction and leads to other mistakes in the future for themselves and for those around them.
In summary. They don't know each other. They don't know themselves. They're confused so they fake it.
I'm going to be pretty sad if I am completely off.
Don't worry Sharon, I think you're onto something.
A thing to consider about this pretense is that the characters are so good at doing it and hiding the pretense. Polonius sends out Reynaldo to slander Laertes' name in order to find out more how Laertes is doing, an act most reprehensible (A2 S1 L17). Yet no one else seems to know about it. Polonius asks Claudius, “What do you think of me?” Claudius answers, “As of a man faithful and honorable.” (A2 S2 L128-129). It's pretty obvious that Claudius knows nothing about what Polonius is up to. Hamlet vows to kill Claudius, yet Hamlet is able to hide this as Claudius has not shown that he knows about Hamlet's murderous intent.
Resencrantz and Guildenstern in A2 S2 are summoned by Claudius to closely monitor Hamlet's "change" in behavior. Like drones, they simply comply and ultimately act as different people in an attempt to discover why Hamlet is acting the way he is acting. Gertrude says that "there are no two men alive that [hamlet] is fonder of" L20. If they are such good friends of Hamlet, why turn against him and act as the King's spies? They engage in pretense and ultimately betray the good relations they have with Hamlet.
I think that in this play, like Sharon said, not everyone knows who they are, and without knowing who they are, find themselves in contradicting positions. Everybody, especially Polinus (as seen in his orders to Reynaldo) have devious personalities, but on the outside attempt to show cordial and compassionate attitudes. They all act parts that portray inaccurate representations of their character, in an attempt to gain self satisfaction or knowledge for themselves, or someone else
In Act II, Scene 2, Rosencrantz & Guildenstern, are 'engaged in pretense' Around lines 250-300 (there's actually more, but this is when it comes to a peak) they act shady and Hamlet notices. They're acting the part of a concerned friend, but are really out to find information. I was bothered by this because if they're Hamlet's closest friends, why would they do this? Why would they listen to Polonius/King/Queen to spy on Hamlet?
I feel like I'm taking pretense to mean the wrong sort of thing, but the way that I percieve it is: almost everyone in this play is lying right now. Everyone.
Hamlet is lying to seem crazy (line ~200 in Act II, Scene 2). Gertrude feigns her sadness (or seems to, as we discussed in class). Claudius pretends to care about Hamlet and want to keep him close, when he's really just controlling him (again as we talked about in class). Polonius is all sorts of wrong. His pretentious nature and how he almost begs for attention from the King and Queen (Act II, Scene 2, Line 133) shows that he is putting up a front. He's terribly long-winded and tries to act fatherly to Ophelia but ends up just telling her what to do.
If pretense doesn't mean that then I just said a whole lot of nothing =[
From reading the other posts I started to think of why they were all lying, and Sharon + Alex touched on it, but is it because in that time period people needed to be like this? Were the things at risk (the thrown, wars, power) too dangerous to be left to honesty?
I was just thinking about how royalty, and aristocratic privilege are a pretense...
But it was just in the back of my mind.
In the soliloquy at the end of Act II Prince Hamlet is outraged at the actor's ability to weep "all for nothing." Hamlet proclaims: his own "motive" and "passion" would "drown the stage with tears" compared to the player's.
Shakespeare reveals the incredibly real suffering Hamlet is undergoing through the pretenses of his mother, uncle, and Polonius. His uncle is hiding the fact that he killed Hamlet's father, his mother could be hiding the fact that she was his accomplice(remember women like party goers), and Polonius is hiding the fact that he is the one forcing his daughter away from the 'love' of Hamlet. Compared to all of the "monstrous" corruption Hamlet is on a mission of Truth. Mostly because he's the only one who has really lost something, well if you don't count Denmark.
More on the soliloquy end of Act II
"Am I a coward?" Hamlet asks himself if he's is afraid. By continuing to think out loud Shakespeare shows us he is not, and goes to the next step in his purpose: "Who calls me villain?" He asks himself 'if he killed his uncle would he be a villain?' But in turn discovers it is uncle who is the
"Bloody bawdy villain! Remorseless, treacherous, lecherous, kindless, villain!"
O VENGEANCE!
I think that word needs to be on caps lock.
And Hamlet knows he must kill him, but still has doubts, "weakness" and "melancholy", (which is probably a good thing) about the ghost and sets out a plan to prove if his uncle truly is a "villain".
Like many of the previous posts, I see a recurring theme of appearance versus actuality. Many characters, such as Polonius, Claudius, Guildenstern, and Rosencrantz, disguise themselves with sincerity and veracity, yet those are only facades that hide their true, evil intentions.
Polonius hides behind this mask of genuine care and love, especially towards his own son and daughter. He lists off advice to his son, yet as soon as Laertes leaves for school, Polonius has a spy sent out after him. This action shows an obvious lack of trust Polonius has in Laertes.
Claudius also has the same characteristics of Polonius, but towards Hamlet. Claudius pretends to care for Hamlet, simply because he believes it's necessary for him to keep Hamlet close, or Hamlet will overthrow him.
Rosencrantz and Guildenstein are two of Hamlet's closest confidants. However, they turn on Hamlet, and become spies for Claudius. They poke about, trying to find out the secrets of Hamlet.
I think that Hamlet, although also confused about appearance and actuality, has the most noble and truthful intentions of all the characters in the play. The whole idea of "seeming" first surfaces in Act I Scene 2. Hamlet responds to the Queen's comment by stating that "These indeed, 'seem,'/For they are actions that a man might play/But I have that within which passes show/These but the trappings and the suits of woe." Hamlet declares that his emotions and tears are genuine, unlike those of most around him.
It seems as if the dominant line of thought on the blog so far is that they don't know themselves and this is the root of their "seeming". I think this is a correct analysis but for the sake of discussion there may be some other possible ways to approach this, as supplements to them not knowing themselves.
First of all their communication is extremely strained, and not necessarily by choice. The main character is in college and everyone is preparing to go somewhere: to the war, back to college, off to find their way in the world. When you can't actually talk to someone about something you may assume their answer and thus they seem a certain way to you.
Also we can look at the idea of trust vs. insolence/stubbornness. There are a couple of good examples of this in the beginning of the play. Hamlet is mad at his mother and sees her in a certain way (she "seems" a certain way) because of her marriage to Claudius. We all think this is wrong but what if as unlikely as it may be she did it because she thought it was good for Hamlet. Similarly Polonius' family is always preaching things they don't do, but perhaps they are just trying to say "learn from my mistakes, trust me". Now all of a sudden that seems a lot more noble, than how we initially took it. I think we must look a little deeper into the composition of these characters for this, in essence either we have to actually read the book much more carefully, or the answer may be in the future. However I still agree with everyone, I'm just suggesting these as they may also be true and I was a little bored of the monotony so I tried something different.
Natalie and Erik... I think that reasons for their behavior definitely include pride and the need to keep up a facade in order to protect their image/reputation. It seems like a slightly exaggerated, confusing version of the way some people act every day. It also makes me think of celebrities and people on "reality" TV shows.
The pretense I see is not necessarily a total lie. Natalie brought up the conversation of Rosencrantz, Guildstern, and Hamlet (2.2.206-313). Maybe in some senses the two men did come as friends. the majority of their intentions however were most likely what you all have said before. They came as spies to gather gossip about Hamlet. They speak to him with the utmost sincerity, yet they are not truly sincere.
They 'seem' to be friends. Luckily after a rather lengthy conversation Hamlet wises up and tells them that he "know[s] a hawk from a handsaw"(2.2.313). He is basically telling Rosencrantz and Guildstern that he senses their fakeness of action.
One person that is specifically entwined with a 'seeming' character is Gertrude. The Ghost mentions how she is "virtuous-seeming". No one knows the true nature of anyone else around them. There is a great sense of distrust among all of the characters which is very upsetting. I guess that this one thing is what keeps the play moving along.
To me, the word 'seem' indicates apparent truth with inner doubts or without fact. I think of statements like, "he seems nice" and, "it was a seemingly nice place to be". There is an unsure sense to it all. It is uncomfortable I guess you could say.
It seems(haha seems) to me that that Hamlet is insane for having a conscience. Polonius, Gertrude, Claudius, Rosencrantz, and Guilderstern all come to the conclusion that the Prince has lost his marbles. Even though they are the ones who betray Truth and masquerade under the cover of their pretenses.
Hamlet is the only one sane, or true to his convictions, morals, and conscience. While everyone else has gone insane forgetting their own restraints with lust, power, etc.
Ah Erik, the concept of restraint again! Oh how we tie in all the books we read... I would say that I agree with Erik very much. Hamlet is the only person who seems actually human with instincts and emotions that reflect how he truly feels. Gertrude-- wife of elder Hamlet-- is simply a fake person with no sense of moral standing. For what reason she married Claudius I do not know, but whatever the reason is, I sense that she engages in extreme pretense.
Erik- I think what you said about Hamlet being the only character with a conscience is true but ironic. In the end it is this very conscience that drags him to his own death. Sure, he does manage to take down half the cast with him, but at what cost?
Going back to what Alex said about A2 S2 when Guildenstern and Rosencranz act as spies to Hamlet even though "there are no two men alive that [hamlet] is fonder of" (L20), I think this also relates to the idea of pretense. These two men trust Claudius; he's the king. They act under the pretense that Claudius is acting in Hamlet's best interest. In fact Claudius is only trying to protect himself. Bringing in what Natalie's 2nd post said, I think Shakespeare is trying to illustrate the dangers of trust. By listening to Claudius Guildenstern and Rosencranz only hurt their friend even more.
All those mentioned characters have this false outer layer, masking their true being.
Everyone "seems" to be something else, a whole different person entirely. Even Hamlet's dearest friends from his schooling days are caught in these royal lies. Hamlet can see right through this deceitful veil masking reality. Hamlet notices a "kind of confession in their looks, which modesties have not craft enough to colour" (Act 2, scene 2, 277).
And even though we believe Hamlet to be acting upon noble intentions, he is being driven by the potentially decietful appearance of the ghost--an apparition "seeming" to be that of his passed father, the war-driven king who was murdered by his brother. Hamlet is falling ill to speculation. In act 2 and beyond, between when he first sees the ghost and begins contemplating the revenge on Claudius, he is not entirely positive if the specter really is what it appears to be. The ghost is very ambiguous, just like most of the characters.
All these characters, when they are on stage together put on a happy face. But when you get them alone, all plot, scheme and make awful "traps" for other characters behind their backs.
Polonius basically hires his servant to stalk his own son; he also plots a "love-trap" to see if Hamlet really is in love with his daughter Ophelia.
Claudius hires Rosencrantz & Guildenstern to spy on their best friend Hamlet.
Hamlet is listening to shady instructions coming from a dead guy, maybe not even his real father. He has a plan to test Claudius' conscience with a play.
And who knows what's going on with Gertrude. Was she aware of Claudius' plans to murder her husband? Did she ever truly love the prior King of Denmark?
So many lies...
The only character that seems to be the least bit straight is Horatio, the educated, honest friend to Hamlet.
I really think that everyone is just looking out for themselves in the play. We especially see this with Hamlet. I honestly don't think he'd think twice about killing Claudius--the king whom he absolutely despises--but he does not want to "couple with hell" (Act 1, 5, 93) and suffer the inevitable fate Claudius himself will face. Hamlet ultimatley does not want to see himself turn into Claudius, but he wants to avenge his beloved father. Hamlet is caught in a slight predicament...
There is a problem of identity in the play. All of the characters seem to think or act one way, but really it's the opposite. The characters each try to find out other character's true intent and feelings. Everything is seemingly-unsure, not solid.
The ghost is definitely a character that is (unsure) as a whole. Hamlet says that he will revenge his father's death, but his words don't reflect his doubt in the ghost's truth and existence. Hamlet is also faced with figuring out a way to take on his revenge, but starts by faking madness. This madness is a disguise, which is becoming a fashion statement in this play; everyone has one. Claudius - an act of sincerity and care that veils his true evil intent. Gertrude - her show of mourning covering her glee in the marriage. Polonius - acting the role of a father, giving out biased advice to his daughter.
Sorry if nothing makes sense. I can't seem to write or think right now. Its probably because I'm on medication or something.
I know that a couple people have said that Hamlet was one of the only sane people in the play but I somewhat disagree. Hamlet was engaged in the pretense that he was insane but he displayed this insanity so well that I have to wonder whether or not he actually was insane.
Hamlet went through so many traumatic events like finding out that his mother married his father's murderer it is expected that he would at least be on the brink of insanity. He is no longer able to trust his relations and the rest of society because of all of the other pretenses the characters have. With this much confusion it is likely that Hamlet is mad.
Ah! James don't give the story away!!!! haha I'm not that far yet!
When you’re in that high of power, like being the king, queen, prince, councilor, ect... I would think that controlling other people's perception would be vital. If the prince doesn't see the king as a fit ruler, having him killed is not such a bad idea. Keeping your guard up and making it ‘seem’ like you’re a good brother or a virtuous wife is exactly what will keep either is power or alive. (Back then the way of divorce involved someone losing their head to a very sharp blade.)
Them being sneaky and making everything the way they want is based around the idea of making everything ‘seem’ alright. If everything is alright and the way it’s suppose to be, there is no reason to think that there is something deadly hiding in the hearts of someone you know or there being an unwanted surprise by one of the family. Polonius is trying to unroot any possible surprises from Laertes. Claudius is trying to keep all surprises to a minimum by having Hamlet not go back to school. Gertrude has moved on from her first husband’s death and has gotten married, faking her sadness and shortening her mourning period. Hamlet is flat out making himself crazy to kill all surprises that could come from others. Their all doing this to adjust to what would be normal, to make people see what they want them to see without raising any red flags.
I agree with what Sharon said that they really don’t know each other. You can see the pretense of Gertude and Hamlet’s relationship through their conversation in Act I Scene 2. The mother-son relationship was basically tainted by his mom marrying another guy just after her husband’s death. Maybe she acted that way in behalf of who she is, a needy woman who desperately needs a man. Nevertheless she betrayed that “relationship” with her son. To me, in that scene, she comes off as this mother who ignores what she just did as a mother to his son, pretending that nothing was wrong, and/or maybe to guilty or apathetic to acknowledge the issue by talking to her son about it. She does this by asking him, “If it be, why seems it so particular with thee?”. Hamlet replies, “’Seems’ madam? Nay, it is. I know not ‘seems’” retorting back in anger showing resentment for his mother.
As everyone has already commented on this idea of identity and facade, in A2 S1, lines 62-64-ish, Polonius says "your bait of falsehood takes this carp of truth...by indirections find directions out." And he's telling Reynaldo to lie; he's telling him to put on this facade so that he is able to find out things, of course indirectly. I think the fact that he has his servant do all the dirty work, it identifies his as a coward. Either he's too lazy to do it himself or he's scared. And through this desire, his "front" is shown because he can't truly act for himself. And also, because they are trying to figure things out "indirectly," it makes it seem as if he's too scared to just dive into the water, he needs to test it first.
And obviously, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Hamlet's friends, but they rather listen to Claudius and help spy on him; it's the biggest act of all - pretending to be someone's friend.
There are so many fake people...
I believe that the characters do not know themselves as they might think they do. I know that we are supposed to be talking primary about Act 2, but it shows in Act one that Horatio and the other watchman dont exactly know what they have seen, but seemingly, it is the late King of Denmark. Even after Horatio see it,he is still reluctant to believe what he saw.
Also the act of marriage that Hamlets mother does also raises question. It was apparent to Hamlet that both his dad and mom were deeply in love, but only two month after marries his Uncle who is inferior to King Hamlet. That shows that his mother is in need of a man.
Also, I believe that the ghost in general brings question. Mentioned earlier, Horatio is still unsure of what he has seen, but to him, it seems as if what Marcellus and Bernardo have told him to be true. Hamlet himself is unsure if he is to revenge his fathers death, doubts about the ghost if it is telling truths and if it truly real.
I agree with most of what others have said. It seems that most of the characters are lying in this section, and some of them probably don't know themselves(kind of reminds me of Oedipus). The characters seem one way to the reader (and other characters), but in reality are much different.
The quote that Nick gave, "kind of confession in their looks, which modesties have not craft enough to colour" (Act 2, scene 2, 277), is an excellent example of this phenomenon. It shows that that the looks of the characters are not necessarily how they truly are.
There also seems to be some debate about whether Hamlet is one of the few sane characters in the play. Like Nupur, I don't think he is. Hamlet, like all of the others, appears good on the outside, but is truly a backstabber in reality. He comes across to me as somewhat cynical at times, but I'm not sure of exactly how he is.
I think Grace said it pretty well about the false appearances that many of the characters put on. And I feel that Hamlet, so far, is the only person who sees through the masks and uncovers the truth. The “madness” in Hamlet’s words often focuses on the idea of truth. He claims that “to be honest, as this world goes, is to be one man picked out of ten thousand.” Things within the play appear to be true and honest but in reality are infested with evil.
Since many main topics have already been mentioned, I want to put in one of my favorite part of ActII that I think demonstrates the idea of pretense pretty well. “A dream itself is but as shadow…then are our beggars bodies, and our monarchs and outstretched heroes the beggars’ shadows.” I think this idea of the beggar’s shadow and how the shadow and the dream are related directly brings out the theme of false reality.
What I saw in the passage was that there is a sort of dissonance in communication between the characters. This lapse in information, or understanding, makes all of the characters reticent in making bold statements or actions.
For example, looking at the conversation between ophelia and polonious I saw that lack of information. Polonious does make an outright decision to forbid her from her relationship with the prince. He definitely takes a cursory approach to his decision and his judgment is obscured by his overall perspective on young men. He doesn't take the time to understand ophelia, hamlet, their relationship, or any other part of the relationship. I think this typifies the idea of seeming and highlighted by polonious judging on a whim.
The motif of "seeming" is a very interesting part Shakespeare incorporates into Hamlet. In many instances throughout the play, something merely "seems" to be. The ghost is something that is only seeming to be one thing or another. This discrepency creates a world where one can't set any sort of standard because truth is completely relative. This forces us as readers to interperet what is true through the prespective of each individual character, to find out what is true to them, or perhaps compare the several options of what may be actually true, or what may be seeming to be true.
I agree with all the examples of seeming that people said, but I'm going to try to say something new.
I agree with what Sharon said that none of the characters in the play actually know each other. They just "seem" to. However, I do think that they know themselves (reminded me of the opposite of Oedipus), but are putting on pretences on purpose so that they "seem" to be honest, trustworthy, or straightforward to others. Hamlet knows he will "put an antic disposition on" (A1, S4, L171) when he's not really insane (or at least doesn't think he is). Other characters, like Polonius and Claudius, pretend as well. The trouble with the characters in this play is really that they don't know each other and don't know whom to trust.
Also, we only know the story from Hamlet's point of view, so we don't really know the reasons for Gertrude, Polonius, or Guildenstern & Rosencrantz' behavior. (At least not in Acts 1 and 2!) This means everything is based on speculation and "seeming." Nobody knows the truth.
To answer some of the questions about why the characters would be willing to lie and pretend, I think it has to do with power. Everyone in that time wanted to stay on the good side of the king (who had all the power) and so would do what he asked, even if it "seemed" unfair or wrong.
I think that's why Guildenstern and Rosencrantz spy on Hamlet. But, I agree with Jonathan that they might have also gone as friends, and maybe were genuinely concerned for Hamlet's supposed craziness.
I think the idea of "seeming", like Natalie said, applies to all the characters. Gertrude seems to be rather enjoying the company of Claudius, supported by Hamlet saying "She married. O, most wicked speed". Claudius acts as if he wants Hamlet by his side to care for him, but his true intentions are to keep watch over Hamlet so he won't start an uprising like Fortinbras. Like Claudius, Polonius tried to act like a caring father figure but as soon as Laertes leaves, he dispatches a spy to keep tabs on Laertes. Hamlet is also obviously engaged in pretense by acting crazy. Which leads me to question his sanity. I agree with Niloy that Hamlet is not completely sane.
I agree with what Sharon said about the confusion that the characters seem to have about themselves and their own identiy. I think this enigmatic personality is further complicated by the hypocrite vibe that they have which several others picked up on.
I also think that Nick said it best with "All those mentioned characters have this false outer layer, masking their true being" but I do feel that Hamlet's personality, when juxtaposed to this statement, shows that he demonstrates genuine emotion in interracting with his surrounding environment and people.
An idea that hit me when considering the question and reading some posts from you guys was that: how does Shakespeare's powerful rhetoric play into the mix when as many you have said, there is "strained commmunication". Is there any significance in this do you think?
I agree with what Sharon said about the confusion that the characters seem to have about themselves and their own identiy. I think this enigmatic personality is further complicated by the hypocrite vibe that they have which several others picked up on.
I also think that Nick said it best with "All those mentioned characters have this false outer layer, masking their true being" but I do feel that Hamlet's personality, when juxtaposed to this statement, shows that he demonstrates genuine emotion in interracting with his surrounding environment and people.
An idea that hit me when considering the question and reading some posts from you guys was that: how does Shakespeare's powerful rhetoric play into the mix when as many you have said, there is "strained commmunication". Is there any significance in this do you think?
I agree with most that the characters all seem to be unknowing of each other and themselves. They are all filled with secrets and are trying to figure out one another's at the same time. They all seem to spend too much time trying to figure out others that they don't pay attention to themselves.
Also, I agree with Nick that the characters seem to "mask their true being." They all seem to be hiding from each other. Maybe, as Natalie said, because "there were things at risk."
I'm sure everyone’s already mentioned this, but it seems to me that a large majority (if not all) of the characters in Hamlet are engaged in pretense. One character that reveals a large amount of pretense is Claudius. As we find out, he is responsible for the King's murder, but he pretends that he has no part of it. In Act 1, Scene 2 (lines 1-25), Claudius encourages Denmark to mourn with the "wisest sorrow" and plays the role of a wise, just, noble, and sincere king. But we know that this "honest" king is lying and giving a false show to all the people. Claudius is not who he seems, he is a pretender. But of course, Claudius throws a great show and no one, except Hamlet and the Ghost, know that he is a murderer and vile man.
It seems to me that Gertrude does not contain a lot of pretense, but like Erik mentioned, she is hiding the fact that she knows Claudius is not a man with integrity. Like Alex said, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern try to appear like they as good friends to Hamlet, but from Act 2, Scene 2, we see they are insincere and are not true friends to Hamlet. They are selfish and are bought out by the King and Queen.
Hamlet also shows pretense, but what is interesting about him is that he can recognize pretense really easily. In A2, S2, he quickly smells out the weasel and knows his friends are trying to spy on him. Like Erik also mentioned, Hamlet is undergoing the pretenses of many people, making him extra sensitive to it. But Hamlet is also engaged in pretense by pretending that he knows nothing about his father's murder and that he is not extremely disgusted by the marriage. He also hides that he was visited by the ghost of his father and is plotting to kill his uncle.
The fact that many of the characters in Hamlet are engaged in pretense seems to imply that this might be the most important theme in play. The idea of seeming, like Mrs. Minor said, is definitely prevalent in Hamlet.
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