Tuesday, September 30, 2008
Assignment for the week
Brainstorm topics and thesis statements for your Great Expectations essays. I expect each of you to log on several times to interact with your colleagues, thereby assisting one another in this process. Your polished thesis is due on Monday the 6th. The essay is due on Monday the 13th.
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55 comments:
Why am I always the first to comment =[[.
So my thesises (theses??) are really rough and more general ideas of a paper. I just want to know if they're too generic and I shouldn't even bother.
Thesis 1)Great Expectations, like the movie Scarface, deals with a sudden surge of luxury that a common person can't handle.
Thesis 2)Pip, abused and awkward, is much like a child star in the way that his fame is quick and unsatisfying because humans can't function being thrown into the lime-light.
Thesis 3)In the way that Havisham abuses Estella and manipulates Pip makes her as ghastly as a murderess.
I think I like your second choice the best Natalie. You might want to avoid including generalizations about all human nature, but I think the conflict of Pip's character and his sudden rise in status is a cool topic.
As for my own thesis I think I want to discuss the two endings Dickens wrote for the book. Something to the effect of "Although many literary critics admonish Dickens for rewriting the ending of Great Expectations, this new happier ending better achieves Dickens' purpose of criticizing the upper classes." This isn't set in stone but it's a start. Like Mrs. Minor said, I have a strong topic, but not a thesis.
To Natalie;
Those theses are far from generic.
To James;
The second part of that sentence sounds like a thesis to me; it's arguable, it's clear, and it's something you can prove with evidence.
I am having trouble contriving a thesis as I have not had a great deal of time to think about it yet.
However I came here looking for some other peoples' ideas and to James and Natalie, great thoughts.
Natalie, all three of yours are very outside the box. I like the ideas and all could make very interesting essays. My worries mostly come on numbers one and three. They seem to be very demanding and although interesting, I think you may run the risk of diggin yourself in too deep. I like #2 the most.
James, I love that idea. I wish I could say I thought of it. I too noticed how the rewritten ending greatly helped Dickens' point. If I were you I would stick to that idea and just narrow it down a little bit.
Good job you guys. I should be posting my thoughts up here sometime in the near future.
Natalie: I love how your brain works. Its fascinating. I love how your theses reach out to pop culture themes that everyone can relate to! Like James and JP i think that thesis number 2 is the most usable but i find number 1 more interesting! I'm not sure you could find enough literary meat to back up your first thesis, but there is plenty to back the second.
Jameski: Great great great idea, although I'm not sure that it is entirely necessary to include the first part of your sentence. It weakens the beautiful point you are trying to make.
I'm interested in constructing something revolving around Jaggers' O.C.D. tendencies. Something like: "Jaggers, who obsessively washes his hands after his daily unethical and morally slimy work as if to cleanse himself of his sins, is employed by Dickens to expose the absurdity of how hypocritical humans are."
(Its pretty sloppy...)
Don't be afraid to hurt my feelings. I don't have any, so bring it on the constructive criticism.
Sean, I'm not sure if I understand how you are relating Jaggers cleansing himself after his dirty deeds to hypocrisy. Are you trying to point out how it's ironic that someone who is so concerned with cleaning himself acts in a way that doesn't coincide with his obsessions?
Wait... So I guess that is being hypocritical. Maybe word it a bit differently? "Hypocritical" seems kind of board to me. I really like your idea though! I noticed that about him, too.
Sean I personally think your idea is really good and if you could find a way to clean up your thesis a bit I believe that it would be a very good start to your essay! Maybe you could introduce the idea of hypocrisy before you talk about Jaggers specifically? That way you can work your way from general to specific, and maybe clear some things up. That's just an idea I had about it.
Sean you are absolutely right about natalie! Her brain works in amazing ways. Natalie; I agree with everyone else about your thesis number two. It is the best in my opinion, and with a bit of tweaking I think it could be very good lead into a great essay. There's plenty of text evidence to back your statement up.
I want to compare and contrast Dickens obsession with aristocratic arrogance and poor humility. Maybe something like:
Charles Dickens utilizes satire in Great Expectations. A satire so personally jarring it unveils the aristocrat in every single one of its readers. Emphasized more so by the contrasting humility and conviction of the 19th century poor, the mockery of aristocratic privilege and arrogance is more than effective, it is possessive. The possessed being reader's hearts and minds.
I'm struggling imagining Al Pacino as Pip though. Or was I not supposed to do that?
Sean- I think Jaggers is one of the most important and interesting characters in this book, so that's an awesome idea in my mind. It might be hard to squeeze out an entire 4-6 pages on just Jaggers though, so maybe you could compare him with another character? Just another thought.
Erik- I also really like your topic. While we'd all like to think we're like Pip, in actuality we're more like Drummule and Havisham. I think you're still a step away from a thesis kind of like me, with a good topic but not a solid thesis.
Thanks for everyone's advice! This is actually really helpful.
[1] In modern society, celebrities are looked up to immensely, especially by young adults who are searching for their identity. They are usually admired because they are more privileged, respected and considered more attractive than the average human being. In reality, many of these "role models" are solely concerned with her superficial image and abuse the fact that they can get away with things because they are famous. Pip's strong desire to become a gentleman is similar to a teenager idolizing a notorious celebrity.
[2] Although she is physically alive throughout the novel, Miss Havisham chose to end her life when she was left by Compeyson. Miss Havisham's inability to forget about her past and move on was equally as self abusive and degrading as if she had committed suicide.
or
Miss Havisham's inability to forget about her past and move on was equally as self abusive and degrading as if she had committed suicide. Although she is physically alive throughout the novel, Miss Havisham chose to end her life when she was left by Compeyson.
Something like that. What's a better word for degrading?
Natalie
I like your 3rd thesis a lot. I think it has a lot of potential but it might be a hard one to write. The basic premise is probably correct, it would be interesting to see what type of evidence you could find to back it up.
Ok, I finally narrowed down my topic for my essay. My topic is about how Dickens uses his characters to bring out the theme of superficiality and how most people have a good side. I’m not sure how I'm going to make that into a good and clear thesis.
This is what I came up for my intro paragraph :
Characters are an important tool Dickens uses in his novel Great Expectations. With his characters, Dickens indirectly presents ideas for his readers to ponder about. One idea that is prevalent in his novel is superficiality. Through his characters, Dickens shows society that people are deeper than what they seem and that there is a good side to most people.
(It really sucks so feel free to give me suggestions. I don’t think my thesis is very clear, so I need help with making it clear and stronger.)
Hi Everyone--
I really like all of your thesis statements. Natalie, I find it awesome that you have realated the book and the concepts within it to other modern works of art and our society we live in today. Michelle, I think you have a really good idea. The superficiality present amongst Dicken's characters is so vast though, maybe you could hone in on one specific character and examine how they exhibit this 'superficiality' through their actions, and how those actions effect others around them.
I came up with (2) potential thesis topics:
1. PIP'S conscience is plagued by a relentless sense of guilt that constantly gnaws away at his inner self, dictating how he percieves the status-driven world around him.
2. The uneducated, illiterate, lower middle class character of JOE is perhaps the fullest and most complete being in the novel, possessing the genuine qualities that, in a perfect reality, would construct a true gentleman--one free of artificialtiy.
Not sure if the first one has a strong enough opinion...?
Thanks, hope everyone has a GREAT weekend!!!
Ooh there's positive vibes on this post =]. Makes me feel nice.
I didn't have time to read them all, but I read Erik's and it was super elaborate (which is good, you'll have alot of material) but maybe have part of that as like an intro paragraph?
Sean's Jaggers thing: Whenever I think of Jaggers I think of when you wash your hands too much and they get really dry and painful to stretch. Kind of how he's not really an 'elastic' character? It makes sense in my head but is hard to get out in words, haha. You know how he's very rigid? Uncompromising? It's like how his hands would be. But I very much like the general idea :)
Sharon: I think the Havisham theses are the ones with the most meat. I think she's one of the most interesting characeters, too. The whole 'existing' but not 'alive' is a really neat idea. Maybe tie it in to something with Estella? Like Havisham chose to almost live vicariously through Estella and how that played out on the both of them?
Nick: I really like the Joe thesis! I never thought about Joe being the true gentleman, but I can see it now. Run with that one :)
Michelle: I can see where your paper can head but the thesis makes me confused a little. Maybe cause I wasn't searching for the 'deeper' side to the characters. But that's definitely one with a lot of material.
I think that's everyone's? Sorry if I missed you
THANKS for the feedback, Natalie!
Yeah I think I'm going to go philosophical with this one:
Charles Dickens' disgust with the extraordinary arrogance exhibited by the typical 'gentlemen' and 'ladies' of British Society, is further expounded and liberated in Great Expectations. Characters such as Bentley Drummle, Molly Pocket, and Havisham show the gentiles for all their worth while their opposites in Joe Gargery, Herbert, and Magwitch the convict....
I really want to find Dickens' greater purpose in writing it. I guess that's impossible given the nature of the weekly style of the writing. However, I don't think all he wanted was money. He was a poor child, he had to work as a child, and then he starts writing and gets thrown into a society of arrogant pricks whose main goal in life is not to work. So, he mocks them in his writing I suppose.
I'm being lazy, but I hope I'm giving people some ideas....
I'll give some feedback tomorrow, I promise.
wow everyone has great thoughts...Miss Havisham was the character that interested me the most...I ' am having a hard time coming with a interesting way of making her the focus of my paper..here are some of my general thoughts
*compare Miss Havisham and Orlick...both bitter about their broken hearts so they decide to vent their pain by hurting others
*the wealthy and famous have certain obligations to society and if they don't achieve them then they self destruct
*her self inflicted exile showed her lack of confidence to re-expose herself to society..compare this to Magwitch's approach to return back to society
Estella and Havisham would be interesting to compare, but I can't think of anything right now..
SK- Your first topic is well thought out and if I had any say on the matter, I would tell you to continue your efforts on the first thesis. I like where you were going with how the famous and wealthy are only focused on their superficial image. This is something that is arguable and you could relate how Pips superficiality changes once he has expectations(just an idea). You had another statement that the famous and wealthy abuse their privileges. This too is well thought of and arguable, but there may not be enough examples from the text to prove your point.
Your second thesis is creative and it is clearly arguable. The only thing I can say about it, is it may be difficult to write a full paper on the topic.
A better word for degrading might be self destructive but idk.
Michelle- first of all, it doesn't suck. Its very well thought out.
Your introductory paragraph is well written and I like your topic. I don't think it would hurt to include a sentence or two to grab hold of the readers attention and have them do a double take.
One of the reasons you may be having trouble turning your topic into a thesis is because its still relatively broad. You could argue that superficiality is prevalent in the same manner today as it was when Dickens wrote the book. Or you could narrow it down to the differences in levels of superficiality in each of the classes. Just some ideas.
Well, I have had a little time to think about this since it was assigned. I guess it is better late then never.
I like Wemmick as a character because of the fact that he is a part of the aristocratic, snobbish society of London, yet he has Little Britain to escape to. So...
Mr. Wemmick is an upper-middle class citizen with the heart of the working class. Dickens' uses Wemmick's character to show that although the upper-class generally has an air of snobbery, true gentlemen can emerge. This use of Wemmick gives the reader a greater hope that Pip will turn out to be more like Wemmick rather than some character like Bentley Drummle.
It is rough and needs some fine tuning. I can probably cut some parts out. I just like Wemmick as a character because he is sort of like the ray of hope we can clearly see.
Criticism highly welcomed!!!
Jonathan--
I really think Wemmick would be a great character to talk about in a literary analysis. Even though Pip seemed to develop an aura of arrogance, disrespect, etc. upon recieving his gift, maybe you could talk about how he gained qualities as depicted by Wemmick after losing the little wealth he came to possess, and in turn, finally began to evolve into a true "gentleman"? Because, I think, at the end of the novel, Pip really does lose everything that defined his great expectations, especially in the eyes of society...
I think it's cool that you're going to examine Wemmick vs. Pip vs. Drummle. It's like a little character triangle.
I'm planning on writing my essay on the idea of a gentleman, and the social satire that Dickens uses to mock the idea. It's also going to include the characters that are "common" by social standards, but are gentlemen otherwise.
Thesis:
Dickens' portrayal of a Victorian gentleman evokes a derisive tone that criticizes, and challenges the behaviors and mannerisms society deems fundamental for a gentleman; behaviors he utilizes to show contrasts between artificial, society contrived gentlemen and true, overlooked gentlemen such as Joe and Herbert.
I know it's not perfect so please help me out. I'm open to all advice and criticisms.
hello children of AP Lit!
I've read some really interesting ideas for essay topics, and they're really out there, but it's good.
Natalie- I really like your three choices, especially the first on. It's really original and new, but at the same time it might be difficult to write 4 pages on it. I love your ability to relate current allusions to Great Expectations.
Sean- I like the character of Jaggers, and I also wanted to write about him, but I just haven't been able to develop anything strong. However, I do think that you have a good topic of concerning his OCD, because it's one of those traits that Dickens purposely emphasizes to show his character. I kind of get where you're coming from with this hypocritical thing but also try to expand it a little more.
Erik- I really like your second idea. I believe Dickens purposely paired off characters who are complete opposites of each other to show the brutality and cruelness of the upper-class in Victorian England. Like James said, I think you're very close to developing a strong thesis, so just continue tweaking!
Nick- Your second topic idea has a lot of potential. I think Joe is used in the novel to portray the "uncommon gentleman." He doesn't fit society's meaning of the word, yet he is a gentleman in truest form.
As for my topic, I want to write about Pip's horrible childhood. Pip seems to have been deprived of the ordinary childhood that most children experience. He lives with his cruel sister, and has encounters with convicts, etc. I want to research why Dickens gave Pip this childhood, possibly out of his own experience. Or also, I was thinking maybe how his childhood shapes his future.
Also, I wanted to look into Dickens' purpose in using Magwitch and Compeyson as vehicles in criticizing Victorian England's legal and justice system. Obviously, class and status does play a role in their punishments so I thought I could also tie that in.
I was thinking about an essay about all the delusions and what you have to do to cope with them. Something about the thoughts of what something is verses the truth.
Something along the lines of:
Dickens' states a point with Pip to be a gentleman that while you think something is a certain way, it can be very different than what someone like Pip will encounter in trying to achieve what they want; sometimes even proving to destroy the person or make them unable to function at all.
I know that isn't that great, so help me out please.
Alex --
I think that's fine except you would have to do something about that last part about Joe, seeing that in the book he isn't offically a gentleman and I think we are to assume that we have to write the paper like Mrs. Minor isn't the one reading it.
Thanks for the feedback!
Natalie: I agree, my thesis is not very clear and it confuses me too. I'm having troubles making it clearer! Your theses are great! I really liked your second thesis. It's a good topic and you can expand on it a lot.
Nick: You are so right, I need to focus my essay on a few character only. I think your second thesis was the strongest. As long as you support your thesis well, then it will turn out into an awesome essay.
SK: All your theses are really good, but I think your first one is the strongest out of the three. You can definitely write a lot about that one. As long as you choose the thesis that you feel more comfortable about, then your essay will turn out great!
Tabron: Thanks for your suggestions, they were so helpful! Good idea, maybe I could write about the superficiality of the different social classes. I like it!
Sean: Good topic! Writing about Jaggers will be fun- he’s crazy! Your thesis is super long though, maybe you could make it a little more concise and clearer.
Erik: I like your topic, it's really deep! Maybe you could make your thesis a little more clear, I wasn't sure if your thesis was about the arrogance of society or about the opposites of the arrogant characters in GE.
Lizzy: Comparing Magwitch and Havisham would make a great topic. But if you really want to write about Havisham and Estella, maybe you could compare their differences or you could right about how Dickens has opposites to many of his characters, such as Biddy vs. Estella and Havisham vs. Magwitch.
James: Good topic, but it might be hard writing a full essay on it. Maybe you could talk about how Dickens criticizes the upper class in GE or how the different endings may reflect Dickens change in purpose. Another suggestion is writing about how society might have influenced Dickens in changing the end or that maybe he wanted to have a different focus and that the first ending didn't achieve his purpose.
Jonathan: I think your topic idea is great. Wemmick is one of my favorite characters too. I think your intro paragraph is really good. Maybe you could fix the last sentence, it seems to take away form the thesis statement.
Last but not least...
Alex: Your topic is great! I think you should clean up your thesis and try to make it more clear and concise. The first part of the sentence it good, but the second part seems to takes away from the focus. A suggestion is that you could just briefly mention or tie in how Herbert and Joe are key characters Dickens uses to challenge the idea of the gentlemen. But make sure that it doesn't distract readers from the thesis. But good job, it's a great start!
P.S.
Wow, this is the longest blog I've ever written. I hope you guys actually read it!
Oh, by the way, please give me more suggestions on making my thesis more clear and strong! I'm not good at writing thesis statements.
OK, here is a very rough version of my thesis...
Miss Havisham self-inflicted exile compares with Magwitch's struggle to be accepted into society, therefore they live through Pip and Estella to seek revenge for their sacrifices.
criticisms are greatly appreciated!
Ahh... I shouldn't have waited until Sunday to post... but I hope you guys see this.
I was thinking about the characters and I found that:
Estella/Havisham lack Love.
Pumblecook is two faced... so he lacks character? (I didnt really know what to call what he lacked...)
Magwich lacks morals
Joe lacks intelligence
Mrs. Joe a.k.a. Mrs. Beatdown lacks self control and or kindness.
So almost EVERYONE around Pip is incomplete. And he didn't really have any ONE person too be his role model.
its not really clear... but I was thinking about something like....
Pip was surrounded by so many incomplete characters, that he inevitably failed in his attempt to become the perfect gentleman.
Again. it's not really clear or a good topic.... ANY help is appreciated.
Lizzy - I totally agree with you about Miss Havisham. She’s a very intriguing character and there is so much to write about her. I really liked your last two topics; they left me wanting to read the more. Yet my favorite would have to be the last one comparing Magwitch and Miss Havisham, I never even thought about their similarities before!
SK – I liked your second idea the best, you could find a lot of evidence throughout the book concerning Miss Havisham and how she “lives”. And I totally agree with Natalie, about possibly tying in how she lives through Estella… Great Topics!!
Alright, so here is what I’m thinking so far….
- The concept of having an abundant amount of cash, enough to live lavishly throughout the whole of ones life seems to be the dream. Yet is it possible that excessive amounts of money actually corrupts lives rather than makes them better? How is this idea presented throughout Great Expectations?
Is this EXTREMELY broad?? Let me know….
Jonathan: Wow, you really looked deeply at the characters. I think the new topic you found is awesome! All you have to do is develop it into a good thesis statement. Here's an idea: You can talk about how in our society, everyone is lacking something and how the people surrounding us affect us. Then talk about how the characters interacting with Pip are incomplete and as a result Pip can't become a complete and perfect gentlemen.
Emily: I think your topic is very good and original. There is definitely a lot of evidence in the book to back that up. I don't think it's too broad, just make sure that you present that idea clearly in the thesis.
Here's my revised intro paragraph:
Stereotypes are very prevalent in our society. Similarly, stereotypes were also very prevalent in the Victorian era, the period in which Dickens wrote the Great Expectations. In this novel, characters were an important tool that Dickens uses to present ideas to his readers. Although most of Dickens’ characters were strongly stereotyped, they contained elements to their personalities that broke away form those stereotypes. With his elaborate characters, Dickens indirectly presents the topic of stereotyping and challenges readers to think more deeply about it. Through them, Dickens shows society that stereotyping blurs out our desire to look deeply into individuals and keeps us from looking beyond our presumption.
*I had a hard time wording the first two sentences. They are kind of awkward. Also, I think my tie-in needs some work. Please critique it, I want it to be as polished as possible before I turn it in!
Natalie, I'm obsessed with you... hahaha. I really like your third one, but I believe it would be a difficult paper to write. However, the second one is good as well.
Elizabeth, I like yours a lot and I think it could become a rather interesting paper.
Sharon, I think the second thesis is the one to go with. It's interesting and has a lot of potential.
I agree with most about James' and Sean's theses.
Nick, I think the second one is best. Maybe make it a little more detailed.
Erik, your opposite thesis is really interesting as well! I like it a lot and I think you can find a lot for it.
Jonathan, yours sounds like it could be interesting, but maybe just narrow it down to main characters, or make it more detailed. I know you haven't come up with a thesis yet though.
I am lacking a strong enough thesis to post, but I think I want to discuss how Orlick and Pip are the same person in a sense; Orlick being Pip's vile persona, and Pip being more conscientious and common, yet still possessing flaws. I want to relate the two of them (as one) to people of modern society: how we all possess this sort of good v. evil characteristic. It's pretty weak right now. I need to develop it more, and feedback helps :). So hopefully some of you will check back here and help me out.
Natalie, I really like your first two. I think you should run off with the second due the amount you can write on that topic.
Sean, I like your topic. It's really creative. However, I think it would be difficult to write an essay on just one character.
Erik, you have a really strong topic. Just work on creating a thesis that can match the strength of the topic.
Sharon, I agree with Natalie you should explore your second thesis and try to connect Estella into the picture as well.
Nick, I really like your thesis. I never really saw Joe as a true gentleman, until I read your thesis.
Megan, your paragraph on stereotypes in Great Expectations is great. It reminded of the Socrates quote, Ms. Minor shared with us at the beginning of the year.
Everyone keep up the good work!
Here are a few ideas I have for now:
1. Pip realizes social status is not connected to one's real character. For example, Drummle is an upper-class thug, while Magwitch, a convict, has a deep inner meaning. (I would go on to discuss different characters personalities verse their social status.)
2. Pip's aspiration for self-improvement is the foundation of the novel. He believes in the possibility of improvement in life, and has “great expectations” about his future.
Elizabeth, your thesis is invigorating. Also consider their failures in attempting to make Pip a gentleman, and Estella a lover. Your essay will be one of great character analysis.
Jonathan K, I would argue that in the end Pip becomes the perfect gentleman. He does so by integrating the strengths of the incomplete individuals surrounding him. By calling him perfect, I base my conclusion on his balance achieved when coming from poor humble origins to confronting the pretentious and morally lax aristocracy. Pip is in effect a mix of both worlds, so a poor gentleman, and an aristocratic gentleman, at the same time. I guess that's not really what society would think a gentleman should be, but it's what Pip thinks one should be (which could be seen as Charles Dickens' opinion as well).
Wow, there are so many great theses out there!
So, I was debating between a few different thesis statements. I wasn't sure if I'd have enough evidence for them, or if they're too broad.
I was interested in Estella and Pip's relationship, and was thinking about whether Pip loved her or the idea of her. Also, about how his love helped him to continue trying to be a gentleman when things got tough. So, my first one:
1. Through Pip's "love" for Estella and the subsequent lessons he learns, Dickens comments on peoples' need to reach for the unattainable, which is necessary to remain ambitious and to grow in life.
2. Injustice spares no one, but simply takes on different forms based upon your social status.
3. Dickens' portrayal of the superficial idea of a gentleman and its value continues to exist today, but in the idea of a successful person instead.
They're not very good at the moment, so please feel free to criticize! =)
Sean: Your thesis is really interesting. It occurred to me that maybe in addition to being hypocritical, that's also the way humans forgive/relieve themselves of thier sins. By doing something else good, we try to cancel the bad we did ? Something like that...
SK: I liked both your theses, especially the first one! I was thinking along those lines too, and you could broaden Pip's desire into the value systems of the Victorian times and our society today, if you wanted. Another word also is dehumanizing.
Elizabeth: That's a good, unusual comparison! I like the wording and everything, except instead of "sacrifices," "misfortunes" might be a better word. It didn't seem like either of them really sacrificed anything; they were just unlucky.
Nick: I agree that your second thesis is really good! You could also talk about how there's more to his character and decency than just being "good ol' Joe".
Vanessa: I like your idea. Maybe you could say that peoples' perceptions can be different from reality, and it's important that we can figure out the difference between the two. The so what? seems harder, but if you could figure it out, I think you'd have enough evidence to back it up.
Michelle: Your revision definitely sounds good. It could be more specific, if you took a couple characters and contrasted their stereotype to their inner goodness or something like that. But I like it.
Megan: Yours has a lot of potential! Maybe you could explain Orlick as Pip's alter-ego, and how we all have the downside to our characters and Pip's is personified through Orlick. I hope that was helpful, and i wasn't just repeating your points.
Jonathan: I really like where you're going with that. You could also mention how people need others to help them develop their personality and Pip had nobody like that. The only problem I see is whether you can find an example of someone who did have complete people around them, and turned out to be a real gentleman?
Sorry for posting so late! I hope people get a chance to read this.
Please feel free to offer criticism of my theses! Thanks!
To Jonathan Kim;
I enjoy the idea you came up with. Perhaps you could focus on how being exposed to all those incomplete characters specifically influenced Pip's personality.
To Emily Eastman;
I would think that you'd have your hands tied if you pursued that topic, as there aren't that many rich people. But hey, if someone else thinks you have too much to write about, then how corect can I be? Also, didn't Magwitch's acquiring a large amount of money lead to him acting nobly and giving it all to Pip?
However, I don't think the topic is too broad to handle.
Also, what about being poor? Does being poor lead to a virtuous life?
To Michelle Gonzalez;
It sounds like you've got something really good going there. I'm also interested to see where you're going with that.
To Megan Gomez?
Would you say that Pip and Orlick fit right together like two pieces of the same puzzle? That they complete each other? Or not?
Also, I like the aspect of a good side of a person versus and evil side of a person. It's a topic I can relate to, at least.
To Sandeep Mallidi;
Michelle's name is Michelle, not Megan. Not to be rude, but ya know...
For topic number 1, I'd also use Joe as a good lower-class example of a virtuous person. However, you probably should mention other lower-class people that are bad and some upper-class people who are good, to establish the “social class has no bearing on personality” theme rather than the “rich people are bad, poor people are good” theme.
For a thesis, I was thinking of something along the lines of, “It is through the continuous desires of Pip that Dickens satirizes the same natural desires in humanity.”
The essay would focus on Pip's many wants, then how they lead his to ruin, and finally on how this relates to all of humanity.
It's somewhat rough right now, but I'm impressed at how quickly inspiration strikes.
Vanessa, I really liked your thesis about Dicken's portrayal of a gentleman. But i think the part where you say "that while you think something is a certain way, it can be very different than what someone like Pip will encounter in trying to achieve what they want" is a little vague. I would try and focus in on some specifics to try and clean the thesis up a little. Otherwise I think it's going to be a really interesting paper!
As for my thesis, it still hasn't been completely formed yet. I think I'm going to focus in on Dicken's views on materialism in society by discussing Pip's partiality to things with physical beauty (like Estella).
I haven't really come up with anything concrete yet so any advice would be really helpful!
Thank you Michelle! I think you just gave me the perfect supplement to my half-thesis.
Emily: I really agree with your idea. If you look at people like Paris Hilton, and Brittany Spears, you see people with tons of money that never contribute anything to society! well other than gossip and other useless things.... I think it's going to be a great thesis just as long as you make your point really clear from the beginning.
Muscle Megan: I think your topic is fresh and I never thought of those two as similar. Maybe relate them to people in our society? I'm not sure WHO they are like... maybe like Batman and Joker? haha I dont know... but it has really good potential! keep working on it!
Erik: Thank you for your comment, it made me realize that Pip had become ANOTHER kind of gentleman not like the others in the book. More like Joe than Drummule. Which is good.
as for mine, I've revised it to:
Because Pip was surrounded by so many incomplete characters, he inevitably failed in his attempt to become the stereotypical Victorian gentleman.
So I considered changing my topic to redefining what a gentleman is..?
here's what I was thinking.
One might think that the ideal gentleman is rich, social, and educated, much like Bentley Drummule, however this is incomplete. Pip unknowingly discovers that becoming a complete gentleman takes more than an education; it requires one to be kind, selfless, and moral, much more like Joe than Drummule.
I don't know which way I want to go... HELP.
Dya: I wasn't sure if I had to mention the characters I am using in my thesis or if I can just talk about them my body paragraphs? I liked your first thesis, it's a great topic and very original.You can totally expand on that and there is plenty of support in the book. I also like our second thesis too, but it might be hard to write about.
Connor: Ha ha, I noticed that someone called me Megan instead of Michelle. Your comment was funny (and kinda feisty, it made me laugh) but anyway, I wasn't sure on whether to include the characters I'm talking about in my thesis or if I could just talk about them in my body paragraphs?
I liked your topic, maybe you can talk about how people are never satisfied with what they have and how Dickens uses Pip to illustrate that about human nature.
Nupur: I like your topic, but it might be hard to write about. One suggestion is to write about how even though the high class had many material things, they were lacking in character. Maybe you can also talk about how even though some people may seem to have everything in the world, they are sometimes the people who are the most messed and the ones who are lacking the most in character,love, and other areas of their lives.
I thought we had 42 students for a second...
but my idea right now is to write about Pip and Joes relationship and how it drifts apart because of Estella and his quest to become a gentleman.
At the first sight of something that is more than Pip and his social class, its as if he is almost persuaded to become better without ever being persuaded.
He loses his track of where he came from and what he was. Especially Joe, the only person in his life that could be considered someone to look up to. They are equals, but yet, Pip loses his ways at the sight of one girl.
I don't know, I'm going crazy trying to think of ways to make this better...
Eric: I think your thesis about the idea of a gentlemen and ladies of society was good. I don't really understand where you are going with your new thesis about Pip being persuaded, but maybe its just me. I liked the second part where you talked about Pip losing sight of things. You could probably talk about how Pip is easily distracted by the things surrounding him and that as a results, he loses sight of who he is becoming and of the things that were once important to him (Joe). But that's just a suggestion.
Eric- I really liked your second paragraph about how in Pip's quest to become a gentleman he lost who he was and where he came from. I think this might be a little harder to write about but it seems like it's a lot more focused than just how Pip and Joe's relationship changed over the course of the book. Their relationship is kind of missing the so what factor.
Jono - I thought your first idea was more interesting, but maybe you can incorporate the second idea into the first?
Diya - I like your second idea, but i thought that your third idea might be interesting to read.
Sandeep - I like your first idea and I thought it had a more distinct direction than the second one does.
I don't know if my idea works at all.. but here it is.
Pips strives to become a person that is respected by others, but according to Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, when he left home, he ruined the chance of becoming such a person, because he didn’t fulfill his “Love and belonging” needs. So, in order to go up the ladder, he needs to give and receive love. ???
Cindy: I'm a little confused on what your topic is about. Your thesis also seems really hard to back up, maybe you could write a new one that use parts of your old thesis. But as long as you can back up your thesis, your essay will turn out good.
Oh, by the way, do you have any suggestions on my revised intro paragraph?
Looks like I came in too late. I was leaning towards basing my thesis on Joe. Joe's personality really struck a chord with me and I find him particularly intriguing. Hopefully I will have constructed a decent thesis by class.
Jonathan Pearson, I really like how you are deciding to prove that a true gentleman can emerge even amongst the snobbery of the upper class. I think Wemmick is one of the best character to do this with. I think there are many qualities of Wemmick that you can use to argue your point
Nick, I think where you are headed with your 2nd thesis is great. I think that Dickens wanted the reader to past Joe's simple nature and see in Joe the qualities that make a genuine gentleman.
Thanks for your feedback!
Well, not as late as me, Tony! :)I don't know if anybody will read this in time, but I'm just gonna go ahead anyway...
Michelle: Sorry if I didn't make that clear, but I just meant using the characters in your body paragraph, not your thesis.
Cindy: I like the idea of tying in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Maybe you could focus on how Pip is unfulfilled, and after going to become fulfilled with his great expectations, he ultimately fails because he has never loved/belonged (the last step in Maslow's hierarchy). Then you could tie it into how all humans have a need to belong/love in order to be fulfilled.
Nick,
These are solid ideas but I would suggest reworking the wording a little to make it more clear and direct. Also, use triangular structure in your introduction paragraph to lead the reader into these character driven essays.
1. PIP'S conscience is plagued by a relentless sense of guilt that constantly gnaws away at his inner self, dictating how he percieves the status-driven world around him.
2. The uneducated, illiterate, lower middle class character of JOE is perhaps the fullest and most complete being in the novel, possessing the genuine qualities that, in a perfect reality, would construct a true gentleman--one free of artificialtiy.
Grace,
"Also, I wanted to look into Dickens' purpose in using Magwitch and Compeyson as vehicles in criticizing Victorian England's legal and justice system"
- Why don't you just write an essay on this? I think it would be great.
Sandeep,
I think your thought process is good but the #1 and #2 that you listed are still undeveloped. You should find a specific, narrow topic that you can support with a lot of evidence. Right now, I think those lend themselves to summary essays.
Cindy,
I wouldn't touch Mazlow when writing about this book. Remember, one of the themes of this book is social injustice and inequality a fundamental disregard of Mazlow who does not deconstruct the discrete, individual processes involved with each step of his ladder and ignores social mobility in achieving an actualized state. Others will disagree, so it might make for a good arguement but it'll be a little weird with this novel.
Nupur,
I don't think Pip is partial to things with physical beauty. That is a distorted arguement but if you can find evidence, then go for it.
As for my thesis, it is 1:16 AM and I am going to start thinking about it now.
I know that this posting may be too late, and not many people will get to read this but it took me a long time to actually gather my thoughts of the topic together to come up with a thesis.
Sharon: I think the way you worded your thesis of Miss Havisham (the first one) is good, but i just wonder if you could find enough evidence to write a 4-6 page essay.
My topic is going to concentrate on the idea that the people who actually gained happiness in the end was Joe and Biddy. All the higer class man lived in lives full of flaws and bitterness.
My thesis is:
Through the flaws of the upper class mans, Dickens emphisizes on his philosophy that a person's happiness does not depend upon a person's class.
Thesis: The digressions from realism employed by Dickens, although central to the plot, debilitate the underlying social criticisms of the novel.
hengxin,
consider this rewording or something on these lines:
An individual's level of happiness is independent of class and social status.
You don't need to have the Dickens's specific stuff in your essay since your making a philosophical arguement with Dickens as merely a template.
So I have finally come up with a thesis. It reads as follows:
"Through Pip's experiences a s a "gentleman," Dickens portrays the fact that wealth and social status are not always the keys to true happiness."
So Nima, I like your thesis a lot. I think it's very insightful, and think you can pull it off. However, I wonder about how you will support the thesis.
Hengxin, I think your thesis is interesting. However, I'm not sure I could write a 4-6 page paper on that. Just my thoughts.
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